🇷🇺 РУССКОЯЗЫЧНАЯ ВЕРСИЯ | 🇷🇺 RUSSIAN-LANGUAGE VERSION
ALL PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW WITH A RUSSIAN-AMERICAN
— Can you tell us more about the resumption of your anonymous activities?
— As I said, Russia invaded Ukraine a few days after I returned from the New York City. Personally, both from my experience of analyzing social changes in Russia and from my experience of the international journalism, I accepted the possibility of a Russian invasion of Ukraine — but it still seemed close to impossible because of its insanity.
In fact, a lot of people thought so — a lot of people. But, nevertheless, this madness happened on February 24, 2022 — and I was the only one from my social circle who was ready for it and knew what to do.
— How have the people around you reacted to that?
— The thing is, that I have been urging my acquaintances and friends to get travel documents for several years — at least. Right after February 24, I spent weeks and months urging my acquaintances and friends to buy tickets and leave Russia. I described the most possible series of events after the invasion to them, which came true in the future.
But all my friends and acquaintances started to tear the hair out of their heads only after all the tickets for trains and planes began to sell out at crazy speed. Guess who spend days and nights with them to help them with finding and paying for tickets to Armenia? I will tell you even more — some of them did not learn from their first mistakes and went back to Russia despite me almost begging them not to do that because of the high probability of mobilization. And a couple of weeks later, all of them were tearing their hair out again, urgently moving to Kazakhstan.
— Do you remember how you felt during the first week after the invasion?
— During the first week after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, events were happening so rapidly that I started updating my news feed every 10-15 minutes — from morning until late night. A psychological shift happened inside me. Then, all of that began to get reflected in nightmares in my dreams. I thought for a long time about whether I could mentally endure spreading materials about the invasion, but considering the tragedy happening in front of us, I decided to resume my anonymous journalistic activities for the last time.
And it was this last job that was the most psychologically difficult for me during my whole career. Because… Addressing to citizens in the form of «historical lectures», war censorship, Mariupol, Bucha, treatment of war prisoners, treatment of civilians in Ukraine, bombing of houses, abuse, torture, rape, shootings, treatment of their own soldiers, transfer of conscripts to the front, constant claims to use nuclear weapons, testimony of Russian war prisoners about conditions in the army. Absolutely wild and rough disinformation, barbarian schizophrenia on «political talk shows». Torn adults and children from rocket attacks, destroyed hospitals and houses, and Ukrainian cities practically wiped off the face of the Earth.
I have seen original and independently verified photo and video evidences of all these events. And I can not imagine what the soldiers and civilians in Ukraine went through and are going through. Just as it is frightening to imagine what the military, conscripts and the mobilized ones who sincerely did not want and do not want to go to Ukraine as soldiers have gone through and are going through.
— Has information propaganda changed since the invasion?
— After the invasion, animal propaganda began to gain unbelievable heights from both sides. Of course, it existed before the Russian invasion of Ukraine — on both ends. But it was after February 24 when the propaganda reached a new level, both from ordinary people and bot owners in social networks, and from politicians in Russia, Ukraine, and European Union countries. In fact, a full war also began on the information battlefields.
— Are you equating all sides of the conflict?
— No, I do not, because there can not be any equality between these sides.
It was not Ukraine that invaded another country’s land. It is not Ukraine that has occupied the territories of another independent country. It is not Ukraine that has bombed entire cities to the ground. It is not Ukraine that has killed and maimed millions of Ukrainians. It is Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, not Ukraine’s invasion of Russia. And it is primarily Russian society that is responsible for addressing the root causes of this catastrophe.
But I have studied the picture very well on all the popular Russian and foreign resources «from the other side» as well. And I am able to highlight several very important points — in addition to the positive points and public figures, which, of course, we also have.
First — the most psychologically vulnerable and misinformed side of this conflict is an average citizen: of Russia, Ukraine, Europe, the West, any country. If we take Russia and Ukraine in particular, the methods of this information war applied to these sides are partially the same — and the reaction of Russian and Ukrainian ordinary people is mostly the same. Both sides accept everything their local propagandists tell them. It is very easy to get both of these sides emotional, for example by showing fake news summaries or even fake screenshots of «enemy» comments from social media. Both of these parties fail to notice — and some of them deliberately fail to notice — the impact of both local propaganda and the social media information bubble on their thinking.
Both of these sides in this information war are nothing but tools for scums who exploit their psychological vulnerabilities for the profit. And both of these sides suffer the most from Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Second — some propagandists from Ukraine try to broadcast «simple and understandable answers», in which they sometimes do not believe themselves. For example, that «almost all Russians support the invasion». That «virtually all Russians support Putin’s regime». That «Russians never really fought for their freedom after Putin’s arrival». That «the Russian mentality is almost like a slave mentality». That «Russian history and culture is toxic and saturated with imperialism». That «there is an equal sign between the possibility of a regime change in Ukraine and the possibility of regime change in Putin’s Russia». That «Russians and only Russians are to blame for what happened» — and so on and so forth.
And more often than not, these propagandists do not represent the interests of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. In their deliberate disinformation, they pursue their own — and their partners’ — benefit. As long as the majority of the population believes that the propagandists represent the interests of their own country, this propaganda will lead to devastating long-term consequences again and again.
Third — there are so many propagandists in Russia, they are so heavily sponsored by the Putin’s regime, and they form such a large foundation for that regime’s existence that propagandists in Russia broadcast «understandable answers» to any audience. There is literally everything — from the mass throwing of contradictory statements like the «not everything is so definite» statement to the animal hatred affecting the darkest sides of a human. It is not necessary to list each of their methods separately now, so we can simply say that propaganda in Russia uses all methods of the information war.
Those responsible for propaganda in Russia are not stupid people, and they receive unbelievable amounts of money for their atrocities. They should not be taken lightly. These people are just as responsible for the invasion and war horrors as the politicians of Putin’s regime.
Fourth — even this information war shows who is who of some of the so-called «opinion leaders» from Russia who have moved abroad. Hypocritical, eloquent propagandists who first helped to build Putin’s regime and enjoyed its patronage — and then, after receiving patronage from the other side, began to use their language to trample the dirt on their own peaceful Russian citizens and call for, as an example, targeting Russian soldiers with missiles. Some of the representatives of opposition foundations, who know that they are far away from war tyranny themselves, but still inviting people to their Russian Headquarters and calling for mass rallies after repeated leaks on their web servers — even though their possible activists in today’s Russia could go to prison for several years because of it. Many of the Russian artists who cowardly turn a blind eye to the madness going on in Russia in the hope that it will not affect them or that they will have time to leave Russia when it comes for them — or more than that, those «artists» who are ready to please any government with their tongue out and who receive blood-stained money for their performances at pro-government Russian concerts during this time. Some of the opposition public figures who conduct their live shows in the spirit of Russian federal «political talk shows» but under a «liberal» (in quotes) sauce — those who simply refuse to admit their mistakes, instead pouring slop on those making fair observations. Some of the businessmen who first enjoyed the patronage of Putin’s regime in establishing their companies, and then, when it became unprofitable for them personally, began to renounce their Russian citizenship with pride, began defiantly separating themselves from their «former compatriots» on every possible occasion, and began to pour verbal slop at those with whom they only recently worked side by side in their projects, to whom they confessed «an eternal friendship and devotion», with whom they lived under one roof, with whom they grew up together since childhood.
As long as there is no functioning institution of reputation in Russia, more and more of these «opinion leaders» from Russia will emerge — and they will not continue to bear responsibility for what they have done, are doing, and will continue to do.
And fifth — many of the populist politicians from countries with «European values» do not represent the interests even of their fellow citizens at all: they simply hypocritically play on the feelings of their electorate, deliberately «forgetting» that right now they continue to buy record amounts of natural resources from Russia. Deliberately «forgetting» that they have put their countries and their fellow citizens in direct economic dependence on Russian gas and oil themselves. Deliberately «forgetting» that they, despite the 2014 ban, supplied Russia with bombs, missiles, planes, and other equipment themselves until at least 2020. Deliberately «forgetting» their endless artistic «extreme concerns» when Russian civil society was getting destroyed by Putin’s regime and prisons were filled with packed peaceful protesters. Deliberately «forgetting» how many of them, in fact, did not want to lose their political and business partnerships with representatives of Putin’s regime in their behind-the-scenes games. Deliberately «forgetting» how easily they forgave the annexation of Crimea by Russia — and how time after time they untied Putin’s hands with their soft «outrages». Deliberately «forgetting» what accusations of collective guilt on the basis of nationality led to in the first half of the 20th century. Deliberately «forgetting» that there can be no «first class» refugees and no «second class» refugees for politicians representing real European values. And finally, deliberately «forgetting» that they are also responsible for the establishment and consolidation of Putin’s regime, no matter how much they would like to hide this fact away.
Do not let yourself be fooled — these populist politicians are not the party of «good» and «justice». With their hatred and ethnic mockery, many of them only help Putin’s propaganda in strengthening their influence on the psychologically vulnerable and misinformed Russians, and this has direct consequences for Ukrainians and even for citizens of the European Union itself. The family members and children of populist politicians do not lie in the trenches and die from airstrikes and wounds, as do the family members and children of ordinary people in Ukraine and Russia. These politicians are well aware that they are safe and that they have little to lose even in the worst of circumstances because of their reckless speeches and actions. It is the simple people of Ukraine, Russia, Europe, and the West who pay the price. The simple people of the whole world.
And if these populist politicians do not take full responsibility for their speeches and actions, it will happen again and again. Again and again. Again and again.
I want to highlight this separately, though — I do not put any mark on the people I am talking about right now. I am sincerely grateful to these people for all the good that they have already done for society. And I sincerely believe that these people, if they really want it, are capable both of admitting their mistakes and misconceptions and capable of using their influence for the good of society and all people on Earth. And personally, I will only support them in all of that. But at the same time, I do not want to and will not gloss over the delusions and crimes that I see in front of my eyes.
— Do you think you understand the reasons for the current attitude of a large part of the Ukrainian population toward Russians?
— I think they are understandable, yes. This attitude does not make me angry or resentful. It would be at least strange for me to be offended by people who face real horror and death on a daily basis because of the actions of the Russian government. But I neither share nor support this attitude. More than that, I am convinced that the persistence and maintenance of this attitude toward Russians on the basis of nationality may have devastating consequences both for Ukrainians themselves with Russians and for relations between nations in general in the long run.
We are already a few steps away from an international catastrophe. It is like the world has returned to the 20th century and wants to repeat its mistakes. We must do everything possible to prevent this.
— Do you think you have the right to express your opinion on this subject, being a person from Russia?
— Yes, I do — and why, in fact, does it matter where I was born and what is my nationality in my case? Personally, I have never lost sympathy for the Ukrainian people in my life, and I have an interest and respect for their history and independence as a country. Personally, I have always actively fought against anti-Ukrainian propaganda since 2014 on all levels — even at the university since my first year there. Personally, I regularly made donations to both Ukrainian civilians and refugees from Ukraine after February 24. Personally, I have donated educational and informational assistance via the Internet to Ukrainian refugees who came to the United States. My conscience is clear — and I have never done it for my ego. And my anonymous activity over the past 3 years only confirms it.
— Tell us — how did you perceive the announcement of mobilization in Russia?
— When mobilization was announced in Russia on September 21, 2022, I realized that all my predictions after the invasion had come true. I had been urging my acquaintances and friends for days not to return to Russia and to remain outside the country at least until the end of the war battles. They heard me — but they did not listen to me, and I realized it only afterwards that this was almost always the case. My help was not treated with the attention it deserved. Unfortunately, I did not understand all of that right away.
All of my acquaintances and friends returned to Russia shortly before the mobilization was announced. And guess who started to tear the hair out of their heads again and started to hurry to leave Russia by any means possible across the border with Kazakhstan after September 21?
And the mobilization in Russia itself has shown, shows and will continue to show which disasters the usurpation of power in Russia leads to on all levels. How hypocritical the mocking populist politicians from the countries with «European values» can be, showing the world community how exactly some of them support the «there are no illegal people» statement. How important the help of ordinary people from Armenia, Georgia, Kazakhstan and other countries can be for Russians fleeing from death. How important the help of ordinary people from Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, the Czech Republic and other countries can be for Ukrainians fleeing from death. And how much grief awaits hundreds of thousands of Russian families after the mass return of the first zinc coffins.
— What did you feel from the beginning of the invasion till the end of your anonymous activities?
— Close analysis and work with what was going on since February 24th caused me a deep depression at the end and a strong feeling that all my efforts and aspirations to change the social life for the better in Russia and in the world were simply useless. Now, of course, I realize that this is not true, because I know how much of a positive impact I brought with my work. But it’s one thing to say it now, and another thing — to say it to «my former self».
I ended my international journalism on June 15, and on June 19 I attended a protest in Philadelphia in support of Ukrainian and Russian refugees. But considering what they published in their community afterwards, I decided not to attend their future events. Then, I intentionally edited an amateur video report in English and Russian about that protest and then I posted it in 2 versions on June 27 on the international resource called «YouTube», the Russian resource called «TJournal», and the English resource called «Reddit». After that, I took a pause to formulate my thoughts about what has been happening in Russia for 3 years — and now, you finally see the result of all of this.
ALL PARTS OF THE INTERVIEW WITH A RUSSIAN-AMERICAN
🇷🇺 РУССКОЯЗЫЧНАЯ ВЕРСИЯ | 🇷🇺 RUSSIAN-LANGUAGE VERSION
References
- An image of a funeral of a Ukrainian soldier (left side of the post thumbnail) is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of a funeral of a Russian soldier (right side of the post thumbnail) is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of the Kyiv city after Russian shelling is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of the Times Square in the New York City is licensed under CC BY 2.0
- An image of the Yerevan city in Armenia is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
- An image of the Astana city in Kazakhstan is licensed under CC BY 2.0
- An image of Vladimir Putin’s address to the people of Russia on February 24, 2022, is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of the protest in Russia against the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
- An image of a destroyed building in the Mariupol city in Ukraine is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of massacred civilians of the Bucha city in Ukraine is licensed under CC BY 3.0
- An image of surrendered Ukrainian war prisoners is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of a mass grave of Bucha (Ukraine) citizens with the bodies in bags is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of a destroyed building with apartments in Ukraine is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of a billboard with Vladimir Putin’s disinformation statement is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
- An image of one of the propagandists of the Russian government (Vladimir Solovyov) is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of killed Ukrainian soldiers is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of killed Ukrainian citizens in black bags is licensed under public domain.
- An image of killed Russian soldiers is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of Russian mobilized citizens is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of an example of Russian propaganda in support of the Russian invasion of Ukraine is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
- An image of an example of anti-Russian propaganda is licensed under CC BY 2.0
- An image of police officers beating participants of the 2019 Moscow protests is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
- An image of arrested participants of the 2019 Moscow protests is licensed under CC0 1.0
- An image of soldiers during the annexation of Crimea in 2014 is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
- An image of the Nazi Germany leaders in the 20th century is licensed under public domain.
- An image of a grave of an Ukrainian soldier is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of a grave of a Russian soldier is licensed under CC BY-SA 4.0
- An image of a «Ruscism» propaganda poster during a protest is licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0
- An image of Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini is licensed under public domain.
- An image of the atomic bombing of Japan in the 20th century is licensed under public domain.
- An image of the Samara State University main building is licensed under CC BY-SA 3.0
- An image of an evacuation of people from the Kyiv city in Ukraine is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of an infopoint for Ukrainian refugees in the Munich city in Germany is licensed under CC BY 2.0 DE
- An image of Vladimir Putin at the Russian Security Council meeting on February 21, 2022, is licensed under CC BY 4.0
- An image of Vladimir Putin in front of government members at the Russian Security Council meeting on February 21, 2022, is licensed under CC BY 4.0
